Student finances

[Ellie]

We did everything we thought we had to to make sure our oldest got a good start at university, but it seems the system is designed to make sure we're out of pocket. Not only that, but there's a continual financial drain. And so far we're only a fortnight into the first term of nine!

We did all the student loan forms and ended up with what we thought was a reasonable amount, but the bills they've had to pay are greater than the amount they've been allowed to borrow - by almost £1,000.

Who on earth designed a system that means tests a loan? Then only letting those on the very lowest parental income borrow the most?

The amount they (we) have had to pay out is more than the University website says, and it's all a bit of a shock really.

There's £10 for Student Union - an "enhanced" card that makes them eligible for discounts from certain shops. There was a registration fee of £50 for their Hall - presumably for social activities that they don't have to get tickets for. Each Society wants £5 for membership, and then for sporting clubs there's a Sport's Federation fee of £15 on top of that, which covers insurance.

Oh yes, on top of the Hall fees is a further insurance premium to cover laptops that aren't in their rooms. I mean, how many students will leave a laptop in their room while they're in lectures?

We had to buy bedding, cutlery and so on too. It's all little bits that have added up to a huge amount, the money's been going out like water, and it's been such a shock. We've had to draw out of long-term savings to make ends meet.

All this is before buying any books, the first couple on the list are over £30 each, second hand from Amazon.

I don't really know what else to do except grumble about it. I can't believe we're alone in having this sort of problem.

[Ali]

You're not alone Ellie.

Our daughter has just gone into her second year at uni so I'm right there along with you.

If it's any consolation we found last year that the first few weeks were expensive but things soon settled down and were much more manageable. Compared to last year this year's costs have been negligible.

Student finance is totally illogical. My daughter's course requires her to split her time between two cities (one where her uni is, the other where her placements are). Last year she lived in halls and was in the same position as yours in that her income fell far short of her outgoings. As she does her placements in our home city, and has more of them this year than last, this year she is living at home and is travelling in to uni for lectures. To my total surprise her income has gone up (due I think to a slight fluctuation in our income) so even after paying out for her extra travel she is quids in. Great for her but where's the sense in it?

I can totally understand why people choose to go to a local uni so they can still live at home. Yes they miss out on the whole living independently thing but that is balanced by the thousand of pounds they save in halls fees. When you look at the student finance sites those living in halls don't seem to qualify for much more than those living at home.

Talking of halls fees I can't believe how much they vary, and just how expensive some are. Last year my daughter was paying just under £70 a week but I've seen some at near double that. It shouldn't be the main reason for choosing a uni but it all has to be taken into account doesn't it?

Has yours found a part time job Ellie? That's how most of them seem to get by, or at least stop themselves from slipping even further into debt by living off credit cards and overdrafts.

I wish the book lists would come out earlier than they do. Trying to find a whole range of books a couple of weeks before term begins doesn't allow for the cost to be spread and the best bargains searched for.

I think the whole student finance system stinks but I can't see it changing any time soon.

[Ellie]

Ours is in a fully catered hall which costs £1,669 for the first term. There was an extra £169.33 for Freshers Week, calculated at £25.44 a night. They get 19 meals a week, apparently they're pretty good and no need to buy extra. They've got to feed themselves Saturday and Sunday evenings, which I think is a fairly usual thing to have to do.

Part time jobs seem to be something of a joke. The University has a website, but the jobs being advertised are either too far away to get to or really aren't at all practical. I've had a good look and was surprised to see that many of them expect degree qualifications, which is hardly going to be the case with undergraduates

I find the whole student finance thing totally baffling, more so because it's only students in England who have to pay their own tuition fees. I can't believe there hasn't been some sort of EU challenge, because separate areas within a member state are being treated differently, it's almost educational/academic apartheid.

And I still can't understand how "poor" students, that's students whose parents don't earn the maximum amount, are eligible to borrow the highest amounts. My thoughts are quite complicated, probably not the most politically correct, but if a child's parents are less academic, are they always going to make the best choice for higher education? The repayments are triggered as soon as somebody earns more than £15,000 There's information about it here How student loan repayments are worked out (courses starting from 1998)

Books? They got a reading list early, but not for all the modules, mainly because those couldn't be finalised until Freshers Week.

[Lizzie]

I think its disgusting English students have to pay tuition fees and students in Scotland dont. I think you can go and live in Scotland before you start the course and get it for free I think it makes Scottish Universities more popular than the ones south of the border and I think its unfair

http://www.hero.ac.uk/uk/studying/funding_your_study/expenses/tuition_fees.cfm

I think the EMA for sixth form is wrong too I dont know why some students get it and some dont They made a mess of paying it again this year so theres no money to pay for books

[Ellie]

I absolutely agree with you Lizzie, it's a desperately unfair situation that gives young people in Scotland a significant financial advantage over their peers in the rest of UK.

The way the loans and grants, such as the EMA for sixth formers, has been handled this year is yet another case of sheer incompetence. Some students haven't had their money through, even though it's a loan, yet still have to pay their rent. How on earth they are supposed to do that without any money I've no idea.

I don't, and never did, fully understand the EMA system. More expecially where we live because when it was first trialled it was geographical, that meant that some people were eligible and others weren't, just because of their home address.

The latest thing we've discovered is Prescription charges! We thought that, because they're not living at home and aren't earning any money, our student would be eligible for free prescriptions. They regularly need antihistamine, but not enough for prepayment or anything like that, and at over £7 a go it adds up.

Nope! The forms are umpteen pages thick, there's a personal section and then there's a parental income bit too. Why does everybody want to know our financial position when looking at the rights of somebody who is 20?

I really can't get my head round the fact that when they were working during the "Gap Year" they were clobbered for tax, and are still trying to get a rebate even though the forms were submitted to the local tax office in person at the end of May. They were quick enough to take the money, assessing the income as a single person without any dependants - which they are. Yet, when it comes to getting anything out of the system our earnings and savings are taken into account.

It's all take, nothing is given back.

[Ali]

Good grief Ellie - £25 a night? That's extortionate. The food would have to be really special to justify that, and even then how on earth do they expect students to afford it? My daughter's food costs last year were less than £25 for an entire week! Does it work out at that rate for the whole year or was Freshers a one off extra expensive week? Still, at least it's a very good starting point when looking for ways of cutting costs for next year.

They need to get out and about into the area around the university to find a job, not rely on the university's website. I know all unis are different but my daughter found her uni's job site only really good for one off jobs such as acting as a guide on open days etc. They also needs to do it quickly as the best jobs get snapped up quickly. That's where my daughter hits problems. As she splits her time between two cities it makes getting a part time job in one of the cities all but impossible. Her academic year is also much longer than many courses (next summer she doesn't finish until July 17th) so by the time she gets home for the summer all the student jobs have gone.

I totally get what you mean about the unfairness of the fees issue. I'm surprised that if it was thought there was a case for it being unlawful that someone like the NUS haven't challenged it. It isn't something that I've looked into so I don't know if they have or not.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy antihistimine over the counter? My daughter has hayfever. When she didn't have to pay for prescriptions she got her tablets through the doctor but now she does she buys non branded tablets (such as Tescos or Wilkinson's own brands) which are a fraction of the price of the branded ones but just as affective.

Lizzie - the EMA is means tested which is why some get it and some don't. I have to admit to being a big fan of the scheme as it really took the pressure off us when redundancy and unemployment hit our family income hard just before my daughter started 6th form. It paid for all the extra costs involved in her going (such as travel, books and equipment). Without it I have no idea how we would have coped because the costs were relatively high and the money just wasn't there. It would have been awful for someone with her abilities to have to leave education just because her father was made redundant.

I'm not sure where the EMA funding comes from. Have you found that college incomes have been cut to pay for it?

[Ellie]

The prescription charges form, as far as I know, covers not only prescription charges but also dental and optical care.

The antihistamine was probably a bad example, but even so I still fail to understand how a student who is financially dependant on a loan and anything their parents can spare, is not eligible for free healthcare in their own right, when their peers who may not be studying and who may also not be working, can get all sorts of help and support from the state.

Another bad example, I know, is that a teenager who gets pregnant can claim a home for themselves and their child, an allowance towards furniture and also can get educated for free - which includes at a University. They can be given a free laptop and other expenses are covered too, they aren't required to take out loans. I know the idea is to break the circle, but when somebody who's struggling to make ends meet meets somebody in that position they can't help but be envious, can they?

Students are on the electoral roll of where they're studying/living, because it's where they spend the greater part of the year. So for electoral purposes they say they aren't living with their parents. That suggests an element of independence doesn't it? But apparently anybody wanting to go into Higher Education, who isn't from a family that's claiming benefit, remains the responsibility of their parents until they're 26

We aren't exactly going to travel a couple of hundred miles each evening to make sure they're tucked into bed at the right time, that they've done their washing and are attending lectures. That's their responsibility, not ours, and that to me suggests independence!

Local jobs are just about the same as they are here, care workers and so on. Nothing really suitable for people who can only, regularly, do a couple of evenings a week or maybe one afternoon - because of lectures. It's tougher than we expected.

[nightshift]

It is an iniquitous situation that seems so unfair, especially when students in other parts of the United Kingdom do not have to pay tuition fees.

The Good University Guide shows the differences in financial support http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=7879

Ellie, is your child studying in London? If so they should be eligible for higher loans because of the greater costs of living there. There is a rough guide to student living costs on this site http://flisolo.com/news/university-living-costs-revealed.

This information from the Tax Office may be useful
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxandu/index.htm

[Ellie]

No, they're not in London, quite some distance away.

Things will ease a little bit as we move into the term, but it's going to be the same at the beginning of each term and for at least three years. Heaven help us if they want to stay on for a Masters

It makes me wonder if it was really worth saving anything towards our retirement, because interest on those savings are taken into account, yet they're nothing at all to do with our children.

I'm so irritated by the whole financial thing at the moment.

[Ali]

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what our opinion of student finance is, or how we think student finances should be as, for the moment, we are stuck with the current system. A system that doesn't appear, or feel fair, but then that's life isn't it? Life isn't fair.

All prospective students, along with their parents, really need to do their research, both to know exactly what the true costs are before they start uni, and also to weigh up if it is financially worthwhile to do a degree by the traditional living away from home route, especially these days when there are so many universities around.

Even though the government and universities like to make us think otherwise degrees aren't for everyone. Again it all comes down to research. I think it is very easy for families whose children are the first generation to have a realistic chance of going are more at risk of being blind to the downsides of going. Just as those people who went themselves under the old grants system are thrown by just how much the new loans system costs both the person going and their family. I also think it is important to remember that no matter how unpalatable the choices are there are always choices to be made.

The system certainly isn't going to change to favour those already at uni, and to be honest I don't see it changing anytime soon full stop. There are always campaigns against it that could be joined... Maybe in this time of changing attitudes to debt people will start to wake up to the financial position going to uni puts both the family and person going into and begin to be more vocal about it. Maybe people will start to question if it is really worthwhile going to do what society, and more importantly employers, view as soft degrees. That's the next backlash I'm waiting for - people to be angry for feeling tricked into going into so much debt for something that is all but useless to them.

[Ellie]

[Ali]

[Lizzie]

When I was at school the bright kids went to university to learn more about ordinary subjects If somebody wanted to learn a trade they went to the tech or did a apprenticeship They got paid so if there parents werent rich there was money coming in

Now if kids want to learn more they got to go to University and take out loans When they start work they got debts and end up living at home

How many kids do research like you say Ali?

They got to choose the subjects when there in the middle of exams My boys did career aptitude tests that were no good, They didnt get anything worth doing from them
Most kids choose the subjects they like or what there friends like and there's nobody in school or college knows about what comes after because most of them have never been out of school or college or university

[Ali]

[Ellie]

[Lizzie]

The government made a mess of the grants Did you see it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7697171.stm